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This journal is simply my opinion, meant to encourage and hopefully help others.

Comments will be hidden that are abusive, contain mature language, or incite drama.

I won't respond to any debate or long-winded comments.  It's not that I don't care, but I need to use my time working on art instead.





I've only been on dA for a little over a year now, but I've seen so much drama and hurtful comments on closed species.  Here are a few topics that effect me the most.


Closed Species are not Closed Features


This seems to be one of the biggest issues non-closed species owners have.  Let's say you came up with a new species called Muffin Cats.  They're simply muffins with kitty features, but you love them and want to keep them closed so you can make sure they stay to your original vision.  Then someone comes along and berates you for it.  They say, "you can't claim such a basic idea!  Anyone could've made this!"  But you never said no one else could make muffin based cats, you only said they couldn't make "Muffin Cats", your specific closed species.

A closed species isn't made of only features.  It's a combination of features, plus story, behavior, environment, their name, the unique artist's style, and so many other things.  It can be as basic or complex as you like.  That's why I personally have no problem claiming my "simple" species, and fully encourage everyone to be true to themselves!


Free the Species!


Just because something isn't illegal, doesn't mean it's morally right.  You might not be arrested for laughing at someone when they fall and break a leg, but it still makes you look like a jerk and hurts the other person's feelings.  The same thing applies to artistic ideas.  It might not be illegal for you to make species knock-offs, but it's still rude and hurtful.  If you feel this strongly about artist rights and promoting freedom of ideas, why not try more positive methods?

Instead of attacking others, maybe you could create your own awesome species, and make it completely free to use.  Or make a group called "Everyone's Species is Beautiful" and use it to showcase lesser known species.  Hatred only breeds more hatred.  Find a way to encourage and uplift others instead, and you'll find not only are people are more receptive of your message, but you'll feel happier and more peaceful as well.


Closed Species Limit Creativity


This is one of the silliest things I have ever heard!  As a matter of fact, quite the opposite is true.  Let's go back to Muffin Cats.  So you've made and posted the species, you're so proud of them, but uh oh!  You find out someone else created their own Muffin Cats a whole year before yours.  That means you'll have to give up on your species right?  Not at all!

Instead, you could think of new ways to reinvent your idea.  How about Batter Buddies?  They could be any baked good, any animal, which still means you can make your muffin based kittens!  But it's a whole new idea, and now you have something that stands apart from the other person's Muffin Cats, because your species might include Pancake Pups or Doughnut Dragons as well.  You could also take it a step further and invent a unique back story for them.

Maybe instead of being actual food based animals, they're tiny animal spirits who take on the appearance of food to test people.  At first glance they might look like delicious abandoned food, and greedy people will pick them up and try to eat them.  But kind hearted people will try to find out who lost their little cupcake, and when the animal spirit sees this, they reveal themselves to this person, and grant them one wish with their magical powers.  You don't have to stop there though!

How about behaviour?  Since Batter Buddies live their lives in secrecy, maybe they're extremely shy and run away from loud noises.  They could be born from magic flour baked in moonlight.  Maybe they eat raw cooking ingredients instead of regular food, and if you have a kitchen infestation, they leave their little crumbs everywhere.  Leaving kitchen crumbs leads to them making friends with a mouse based species.  Then maybe they are enemies with a large cat based species; there's nothing better than tying your species together and expanding their world.  There are so many ways to further your creations, it's actually a terrific thing that some ideas are already in use!  This challenges people to work past their first ideas that were so easy to come up with, and invent really amazing things!

Check out griffsnuff's design challenge for example.  She gave the theme of "canine + light" and look at how many unique designs there are all from the same idea!:

Awesome challenge time!SO  Iwant to prove that we are all actually able to be creative if we put our mind to it! this is a small experiment and I would absolutely love for you to participate!
HOW many different versions are we able to make? Is this myth about how something can only be one thing true? Lets combine all our artistic skills and minds and find out!
The rules
PART 1
:bulletgreen:design  a creature inspired by these words Canine + Lights
:bulletgreen: Make a simple refrence sheet explaining its important features (scroll to bottom for example)
:bulletgreen:Name it something
PART 2
:bulletpink: ENTRIES : http://griffsnuff.deviantart.com/favourites/63491680/DOG-and-LIGHT-challenge
 I will put everyone in a folder and link here, your CHALLENGE is to look at what is added, if you see something to similar to what you were going to do, then do your best to change it add/remove things/features, think outside the box, think endlessly, show everyone



Don't Assume You Know It All


"Closed species owners are just looking for a fast buck!"  This is one of the most untrue and hurtful things I've heard on this site.  For me, it's not that I'm a greedy thug stealing someone's lunch money.  But I really love inventing little creatures and their stories!  How much more awesome is it that I can build my passion into a occupation?  There's been those times that if I didn't have my art funds, the electricity might have been turned off, or I couldn't afford a new comforter to replace my old torn one.  I am so grateful and I thank God I'm blessed with the opportunity to do what I love.

"Closed species are a ripoff and a lie!"  When you make this assumption, it's not only hurting the species creators, but everyone who bought from them.  It's like calling them stupid just because they enjoy spending their money on something different than you.  Suppose you frequently go out to the movies.  Well, when you see a movie it only lasts for a couple hours right?  There's nothing you physically take away from the theater right?  What if someone said movies are a ripoff and a lie?  You might be offended.

"Simple closed species show how lazy you are!"  No one has to make super complicated species if they don't want to.  Some people, like myself, really enjoy simple designs.  I like basic things because they look cuter to me, and they're easier to replicate when I want to draw the new adopt I purchased.  I prefer short back stories rather than reading a novel's worth of info.  I admire the more complex, long legged creatures other artists make as well, but they're simply not my style.  It doesn't make me less of an artist, or mean that I'm lazy, we just have different interests.

Bottom line is, try not to assume things, when you're not that person, and you have no idea how they really think and feel.  Chances are they're just as caring and passionate as you are, they only have a different point of view.


Be Careful with Your Opinions


So you see a new species, and it really looks like another more well-known species.  Or maybe you think they're too simple, or too such and such for someone to claim as their own.  No matter the reason, giving advice where none was asked for is extremely rude, and can hurt others' feelings.

What if you baked a cake for your sibling's birthday, and you were really proud of it, but someone comes along and criticizes it because the icing colours don't go well together, or it looks too much like a cake the bakery down the street has, or they think the quality should be better?  And then they list all the things you need to do to become a "real" baker, when all you wanted to do was give a gift to someone you care about?  It may be your right to exercise your opinion, but when your "rights" hurt others, it's never the right thing to do.

I'm always reminded of what my mom says, "dipping and dapping and don't know what's happening."  Just as you didn't ask for anyone's opinion on your birthday cake, unless another artist actually asks, offering unsolicited advice can be offensive.  If you truly believe you can help the other artist, instead of posting publicly, try writing them a note.  But be sure you're only offering uplifting advice with ideas to improve, remember to mention the good things about their species as well.  If you believe they're infringing on another closed species, privately note the other owner instead, so they can make that assessment for themselves.  But really it's best to just not say anything at all.  If no one asks for your two cents just keep it to yourself, and then you can avoid the hurt feelings and ensuing drama.


Don't Let Yourself be Bullied


So many times I see artists let themselves be pressured into doing something they didn't originally want to do.  If you came up with species "A" and find out during the auction that it slightly resembles someone's species "B", you don't have to credit species "B" just because someone is harassing you.  How can you credit something as an "inspiration" when you never even saw it before?  Instead, if you find the resemblance is too close and causes an issue, develop your species a little more, come up with some awesome differences so they will stand apart from the other person's.  There's nothing wrong with coincidentally creating similar ideas to someone else, it happens to all of us.  There is nothing new, nothing truly original that hasn't been done in some facet before.  As a Christian, I always refer back to Ecclesiastes 1:9, "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."

You are never required to change just because of someone else's opinion.  People will pick on you for any reason they can think of, it's inevitable that someone will someday have an issue with you, no matter how kind you are.  So what if your species is too simple, too blue, too cute, too fat, etc.  If it makes you happy, stick with it, and just ignore them.  Just because there's ten million similar ideas out there in the world, none of those artists have the exact same experiences and personality as you, so they will never be able to make their artwork exactly like yours.  You and your art are unique and one of a kind, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

And when you do find yourself under attack, the best approach is to not approach it all.  Ignore them, hide their comments, block them, and if they are abusive, report them to dA staff.  You aren't required to entertain rambling diatribe just to make the other person feel better.  Debating needlessly will not only drain your energy, it usually does nothing to change the other person's mind.  Normally bullies are just looking for a reaction, if you fail to give them that satisfaction, they should get bored and move along.


Learn to Forgive


Just because someone has insulted your artwork, purposely copied your ideas, or done all kinds of hurtful things to you, doesn't mean that they are any less deserving of love than you are.  Remember, just because you may not have done the same things they did, somewhere, somehow in your lifetime you too have done things that are wrong and hurt other people.  Try to have mercy and forgive them.

Now forgiving doesn't mean you have to forget, and become best buddies overnight.  Suppose you have a store, and your employee steals a few dollars.  You might forgive them and let them keep their job, but it would be very foolish to put them back on the register again.  Same concept here.  If you blocked someone for good reasons, don't feel pressured to unblock them and take more abuse because you want to be "forgiving".  Instead, forgiving and loving others simply means to treat them with respect.  You don't need to make call-out journals, or go around spreading mean comments about them, it will only turn you into a bully as well.  Forgiving others isn't for their benefit, but it's for yours.  Forgiveness means you can let things go and live your life peacefully and happily, regardless of what others do.

And if you're someone who may have accidentally hurt someone's feelings and they refuse to forgive you, don't beat yourself up about it.  It's their loss if they decide to hang onto their anger.  One mistake doesn't define your whole future.  Be happy and know that you are still a wonderful, unique person, and God loves you very much, no matter what.


Never Give Up


At the end of the day, it's only art.  Just because someone disliked your ice cream puppy today, doesn't mean the sun isn't rising tomorrow.  Don't let narrow minded comments ruin your happiness.  Everyone starts out unknown, and with nothing.  We all struggle and it takes many people years to finally achieve their success.  Love yourself, love your art, and no one can ever take that away from you.<3
Add a Comment:
 
:iconpastrypuffs:
PastryPuffs Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
 I learned a lot from what you have said above, not just in species but mostly in life, you are very wise!
If i knew the first person who created the closed species I would ponch them on their face >_>* they caused unneeded dramas in da world
Reply
:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Aww thank you, but all my wisdom comes from the Bible, I'm pretty foolish left to my own devices.xD

Lol nah, I think they did a great thing.  As people we all have our faults, so even if there wasn't an issue with species, someone would've had an issue with something else.
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:iconmorgiee:
morgiee Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Sarilain! My goodness your point of view is wonderful QwQ)/ I'm so glad I read it, because I felt the same exact way when it came to this issue

Thank you so much for posting this! You're amazing!
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you so much, I'm really happy I could help encourage others.
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:iconmorgiee:
morgiee Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
QwQ you are most very welcome!
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:icongn-ms:
GN-MS Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Student Digital Artist
Amen to that and wonderful points. I love your views on this :hug:
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you!
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:iconemilou1985:
Emilou1985 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I'm so glad you posted this. I like to make creatures for stories because I love writing and sometimes I'll find that someone's made a similar one. I feel if I post it, they'll think I stole their idea. It's possible for two people to have similar ideas, especially if they're immersed in the same fandom. I've also been on the other end. I've created a creature, and people have told me that they made something similar. I didn't think they stole from me. If it's a creature that I'm very proud of and don't want someone to steal it, I just don't post the back story.
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Yes, it's absolutely crazy, I've had character concepts or names that came out almost exactly like another person's and I never even heard of them.  While it's never ok to blatantly ripoff someone, there's no need for a lot of the harassment.  That's kind of frustrating though, to stick with the mindset if you don't want someone to steal, better not publish it.x3  Unless you're saving the info for something you plan to publish officially!  But then again, I like to get my ideas out there, just in case someone else comes up with it too, then I have proof of the date when I invented mine on dA.  Good luck with all your stories!
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:iconemilou1985:
Emilou1985 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Thank you. I love your stuff, btw.
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thanks!^^
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:iconunolespirit:
UnoleSpirit Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Clap 
Yes, thank you!
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you too!
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:iconmoonstream419:
MoonStream419 Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
THANK YOU!!!
I agree 100%!!!
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you too!
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:icondajenniferie:
dajenniferie Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
GRACIAS.
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you too!
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:icondajenniferie:
dajenniferie Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
:)
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:iconuluri:
Uluri Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Professional Digital Artist
Please don't ever delete this journal. I have been trying to explain what a closed species actually is to people, and you wrote it out perfectly.
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Aww thank you, I'm glad it was helpful.
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:iconhollywoodundeadexe:
HollywoodUndeadexe Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree completely, and i think you made some good points in what you were saying.:) (Smile) 
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Thank you, I appreciate it!
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:iconhollywoodundeadexe:
HollywoodUndeadexe Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
no prob.:) (Smile) 
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:iconfantastikitten:
Fantastikitten Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
thank you! i tried to make my closed species as original to me as possible
i have two:candle spirits and tell tails
people have been making candle things forever,i  love seeing other candle things
but i have several unique things in my babies that i keep personal to me. But i dont freak out when i see candle species because its not the most original concept ever!
tell tails are also pretty unique in my mind, their tails have either paws, mouths, or eyes and replace the actual paws mouth or eyes. i love them to bits but again, people can make tails with eyes and stuff i wouldn't even care because again if you have an idea, why should i go all closed species police on you?
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:iconspeedxaaa:
SpeedXaaa Featured By Owner Edited Feb 7, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree: themed CS seem to get the most shit, but to be completely honest...I LOVE themed characters / species. I love collecting things, so it gives me a sense of collection. I especially adore food themed creatures! They may be the most common, sure, but it's common for a good reason. You shouldn't scrap your character / species concept just because it has a common theme. Instead, work on developing attributes in order to make them more unique!
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Aww yeah, no matter how much we develop our ideas, there will always be similarities somewhere else.  It's great that you have that mindset, makes things easier for yourself!  Good luck with your species!
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:iconfantastikitten:
Fantastikitten Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Like the whole waterdog issue.. He's getting so stressed because he's trying to control the idea which is upsetting 
I don't control the idea of candle combos but it's at the point where even water hair is taboo copying waterdogs
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
No, I don't think he is, I've specifically seen him post that he never did claim these things.  Instead, I just see a lot of bandwagon bullying, with people purposely making knockoffs to incite drama.  But I'd really like to stay away from talking about specific drama, I'm neither alfeddy or the other parties, so I'll never understand things perfectly from their point of view.

It's just that's a good example of assuming things and attacking people needlessly.  Sometimes the fan base of a particular artist can take it upon themselves to enforce "rules" that never existed, put words in the artist's mouth that they never said, and cause all kinds of trouble for them.  They mean well, they're just misguided.

Like with my Fluffbits.  They're cotton candy dust bunnies, fairly generic idea to start with, but I love them dearly.  I have every right to call them a closed species, and ask that people please not copy them exactly.  However, if someone else comes up with cotton candy kittens, or their own dust bunny species, and then fans of the Fluffbits start attacking them for it, instead of the fans, I'm going to be the one receiving the blame for it.  And I never once said I claim the idea of fluff or rabbits, I only claimed my specific fluffy rabbits.  But people won't care, then that's how all kinds of rumours and hateful propaganda start.  However, if I write on every auction that I don't claim the idea of fluff + rabbits, then people are going to take it the opposite way and think it gives them free reign to make whatever knockoff they like, when they should use their creative potential to come up with their own ideas.

I'm only trying to say there's absolutely nothing wrong with having similar features, but all the features, story and such added together help define a specific species, so copying that's never ok.  Hope it makes sense.

It's really hard to balance these things, and I feel for other artists' situations when they happen.
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:iconfantastikitten:
Fantastikitten Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Tbh with waterdogs it's the fans attacking more than him. Like I've seen people draw dogs of water themes and get attacked by people on his behalf when idk if he'd be upset or not. I'm on neither side, I just see so many attacks and so much drama where it just shouldn't be such a big issue
i maybe was too blunt before sounding like I was attacking al xD it's just too much drama over ideas and characters that should be fun and make people friends! 
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:iconspeedxaaa:
SpeedXaaa Featured By Owner Feb 7, 2016  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Exactly! It tends to be the rabid fans that give CS creators a bad image. Its really, really unfortunate.
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Yes, that's what I hope to get across with this journal, that art is supposed to just be fun, and there's no need to hate on people, let's just all be happy we have our own thing.T^T  I get so sad when I see beginners get attacked and it makes the whole community look bad to them.
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:iconfantastikitten:
Fantastikitten Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
An artist I really like just deactivated about this issue and al moved accounts it's all so sad :( people are viscous on all sides
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
That's terrible, I hope they can find a way to positively stand up for themselves next time.  Unless some of us take a stand and refuse to let ourselves be bullied, that kind of thing definitely won't change.  I'm sorry for all the stress they must have gone through.
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(1 Reply)
:iconnya-minty-nya:
Nya-Minty-Nya Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
This is very encouraging. It's actually pushed me forward to developing my species-in-progress named Nominals. They are animals with no special ability except the abilities to jump /very/ high and smell /much/ better than normal. Instead of being food-based, they are utencil-based. You can tell which type of animals they eat based on their tail (They are carnivores). Let's say if a Nominal has a tail shaped like a fork, it would eat food and food-based animals that are eaten with forks. 

Anyways, back to topic.

I agree with everything you've said here, and as I stated, it's very uplifting and encouraging. All of the things you said are very reasonable. Thank you for that. Love 
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:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Lol that's hilarious.xD  Good luck with them!  Thank you too!
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:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Edited Feb 2, 2015
I totally agree. But I have a little question... like... how to proceed in here...?
One of the deviants I watch had a closed species full of info and nice features.
One day, she decided to make them a free species and shared a chibi base of them
so anyone could make their own, or even, make adopts based on them for free.
The other day I was looking for adoptables, and I found a person who literally took
this deviant's chibi base, changed only the position of the ears and called it
their own closed species, and was charging expensive prices for it.
I'm not the original owner, but I was kind of offended by it. I truly think it was
uncreative and stolen work. However, I do know it doesn't concern to me if those
things are true. What do you think I should do...?
Reply
:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Just note the original artist.  If the other artist took their artwork without any credit and re-posted it, it's definitely reportable, however you don't want to cause any trouble publicly.  The original artist will need to report it themselves anyway, dA usually responds quicker to a DMCA or whatever it's called than a regular report, I think.  Plus, just in case you're mistaken about something, it's always best to let the original artist check.
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:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Alrighty then :>
I ended up losing it among other works since I didn't want
to fave, but I'll try to find it again and show to the original
creator. It'll be best for them, should they want to take any
action, to do it themselves after all :>
Thanks for the tip <3
Reply
:iconnya-minty-nya:
Nya-Minty-Nya Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
You should report it to the original creator if you haven't. It won't be intruding on their business, it'd just show you care. Once reported you could either leave them to it or help them through it. 
Reply
:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Well... I think I'll try and find it again and note the owner, then :I
And yesterday something alike happened to me, and I'm still stoned 
on what to do... Someone took the image of my character, recolored
and posted as their own OC... And strangely, they gave credit
(?)... I told them politely that their OC "looks too much like mine", and
they simply replied with "i dunno, idk, i don't think so lol"... but I don't
know how to tell this person that this is "stealing" without being
impolite or sounding too harsh and rude... (because on DA people tend
to get really offended really easily)... should I report them..? TT^TT
Reply
:iconnya-minty-nya:
Nya-Minty-Nya Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
Reporting is a smooth and silent way to go, but saying something along the lines of "Well, to me, taking a character and re-coloring it seems a little bit like 'stealing'. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just trying to inform you." It's how I normally word my things like that.
Reply
:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Oooh, I get it. Thanks a lot for the advice, I shall
be remembering it in the future :>
Reply
:iconnya-minty-nya:
Nya-Minty-Nya Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
You're very welcome, I'm always glad to help! c:
Reply
:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Of course, whenever someone steals your art and you've already asked, just report it.  They won't be banned for the first offense, at least that's been my experience.^^  Plus it really helps the whole community, if they stole from you, they might repeat the offense against someone else.
Reply
:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
I know... But I don't know, it feels weird. The whole "this
is my OC but the credit goes to Biiiscoito" is really weird.
I play Kisekae2 (that dressup game), and shared the exports
with the other users for them to use the clothes only.
This person simply cut the showcase picture with my OC, 
recolored using some weird program (might even be MSPaint)
and reuploaded my picture with the title "My OC Lina".
(the picture was supposed to be a preview on the clothes, 
with my OC serving as a mannequin, and they stole the pic).
Stealing is wrong, with or without credit, but they joined 
DA yesterday and I didn't want to be the first to call it out
on them. Plus, some people just cry out loud when you tell
them they're doing something wrong and make it seem like
you are the one who's being hurtful. I'll be reporting them,
but it still makes me wonder, because... it's a long story short.
Reply
:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Nah, you already told them to stop, no means no.  Even toddlers understand that.  Don't let someone play the victim and then bully you into letting them do what they want.  It's ok to be both polite and stand up for yourself.
Reply
:iconbiiiscoito:
Biiiscoito Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
This means a lot. Thank you. I will take action :>
Reply
:iconchopstick-folf:
Chopstick-Folf Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
This is the most beautiful thing I have seen all day, ;3; GIVE THIS ARTIST AN OSCAR!!!
Reply
:iconsarilain:
Sarilain Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015
Aww thank you, I appreciate the thought lol!
Reply
:iconminteen:
Minteen Featured By Owner Feb 2, 2015  Hobbyist Digital Artist
YES AUTHORITIES GIVE IT TO HER NAOW Stare 
Reply
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